Posts by Joe Grundy

7

Understanding the Watch Tower's Claims about Child Abuse

by jamiebowers in

the watch tower released a statement after the 2007 lawsuit settlement.

it's found here:.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah%27s_witnesses%27_handling_of_child_sex_abuse.

Joe Grundy

Jeffro: Agreed - it is absolute misdirection. I suspect that things may get more difficult for WTBTS in the future.

As society becomes more litigious and it becomes more profitable to establish 'vicarious liability' so that defendants with assets can be included in lawsuits, WTBTS may have to start distancing themselves from the PBI aka R&F.

In the UK, at least, there is quite a drive to identify and prosecute 'corporate liabilty' for both criminal and civil offences (cf. Health and Safety and 'corporate manslaughter' offences). The case law (judicial precedents) follows through from those cases.

I believe that this will cause problems for WTBTS as a 'high control' organisation - whether or not they have the intelligence and knowledge to realise it.

1. They issue written and verbal instructions as to how members will behave and conduct the 'publishing' work.

2. The 'work' is directed and specified ('territories', 'car groups' etc.)

3. 'Workers' are directed and briefed before being sent to do their tasks (FS meetings)

4. The 'work' undertaken is supervised and reported back on (FS reports)

5. Sanctions and discipline provisions are prescribed and can be applied in relation to the 'work'

6. The stated policy is that 'there are no clergy but all are clergy'

A good investigator/lawyer/prosecutor would not have much problem (IME) establishing a corporate liability for things that went wrong, especially using the Data Protection Act and other provisions to obtain documentation. I have no doubt that wherever possible WTBTS would leave local elders 'hanging out to dry'.

Finally, I am reminded of the apocryphal court story where having been found guilty by the jury of an offence the defendant made an impassioned plea - 'As God is my judge, I didn't do this!' The judge gave a dramatic pause and said: 'He isn't. I am. Five years.'

106

Plaintiff awarded in punitive damages -21M & 1 dollar. Total award, 28M & 1 dollar. Here's more info

by AndersonsInfo in

the plaintiff, candace conti's goal from the very beginning was to bring enough attention to this problem to incentivize watchtower to change its policy of secrecy.

the award can be explained as it was decided: separate compensatory and punitive damages.

the punitive award is established in law to punish wrongdoing - here, the conscious disregard for others - and deter that conduct in the future.

Joe Grundy

"The elders watched him after that", McCabe said.

IME&HO this illustrates a considerable degree of naivite on McCabe's (and WT's) part. I don't know whether this was developed by Ms Conti's attorney, but it's like waving a red flag.

Q: Why did they watch him? It can only be because they considered him a potential danger, to whatever degree, and even if it was on a 'just in case' basis it is an acknowledgement that there were grounds for concern. And 'grounds for concern' in child abuse matters demand that a course of action be followed, which clearly and obviously did not happen in this case.

The defendants can't have it both ways. By claiming that 'they did something about it by watching him' (my paraphrasing) they put themselves into the position of admitting that they saw danger and failed to deal with it. I am sure that Ms Conti's attorney reached for the highlighter when he saw this statement and it will provide very useful material for the appeal which will no doubt follow. I wouldn't like to be one of the elders on the stand answering questions on this point, and I'm sure there will be much spluttering, coughing and silent prayers to 'Beam me up, Scotty'.

I spent too many years dealing with too many cases of child abuse when I was a police officer for this to wash over me. And yet this case (and others like it) is in a way far worse because of the involvement of a 'malicious' (as held by the jury - absolutely correctly IMO) third party. That third party is the Jehovah's Witnesses, whether in its corporate form as WTBTS, the GB, local organisation, the elders and even down to local members of the KH who, I suspect, may have closed their eyes to what was happening (or, in theocratic terms, 'kept their eyes on Jehovah' so they didn't have to notice what was happening around them).

(I notice, by the way, that on McCabe's website he's rather coy about his JW status. There's one mention of 'Watchtower' on the home page - in other areas of the site there is only mention of 'voluntary' and 'community' work by him and his second and third sons. I've never been a JW but I was a bit surprised that a prominent, apparently successful JW family wouldn't make more of their JW-ism. Isn't it an opportunity for a 'fine witness'? I wonder if he did this job pro-bono. If so, maybe it reinforces the point that you get what you pay for.)

To Candace Conti, I add my best wishes to all those expressed here and elsewhere. This was not easy for you, no that's an understatement, it was very very hard and I salute you. You know, I'm sure, that there will be people who will make hurtful and vicious comments. Rise above them as much as you can and take comfort that you know the truth - those who can't see it are to be pitied.

38

I am Going to Send The Following Press Release to UK Media. Please Help.

by cofty in

i will email this around uk newspapers, even the ones i wouldn't be seen dead reading.

i have aimed for succinct and non-sensational.. please feel free to use and abuse it if you want, the more emails they all get the more it may catch their attention.. your feedback please before i send it..... .

the legal corporation that controls the activities of jehovahs witnesses, the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, has been ordered by a californian court to pay $20 000 001 in punitive damages to a victim of child sexual abuse.. the victim candace conti brought the action after the organisation refused to change its official policy of secrecy as to sexual abuse of children by congregation members.

Joe Grundy

SBF: Agreed - she may provide a good 'in'.

38

I am Going to Send The Following Press Release to UK Media. Please Help.

by cofty in

i will email this around uk newspapers, even the ones i wouldn't be seen dead reading.

i have aimed for succinct and non-sensational.. please feel free to use and abuse it if you want, the more emails they all get the more it may catch their attention.. your feedback please before i send it..... .

the legal corporation that controls the activities of jehovahs witnesses, the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, has been ordered by a californian court to pay $20 000 001 in punitive damages to a victim of child sexual abuse.. the victim candace conti brought the action after the organisation refused to change its official policy of secrecy as to sexual abuse of children by congregation members.

Joe Grundy

Cofty: Maybe also to Reuters/PA?

I believe that Betsan Powys is now political correspondent for BBC Wales.

More power to your elbow.

106

Plaintiff awarded in punitive damages -21M & 1 dollar. Total award, 28M & 1 dollar. Here's more info

by AndersonsInfo in

the plaintiff, candace conti's goal from the very beginning was to bring enough attention to this problem to incentivize watchtower to change its policy of secrecy.

the award can be explained as it was decided: separate compensatory and punitive damages.

the punitive award is established in law to punish wrongdoing - here, the conscious disregard for others - and deter that conduct in the future.

Joe Grundy

As far as I can see from the court documents, the claim for punitive damages was only against WTBTS NY. Thus their 'share' is 27% of $7m plus $21m = $21.89m. The financial data they filed with the court suggests that there should be no problem collecting that.

49

Bill Bowen Just Posted This on Facebook Moments Ago

by jamiebowers in

jw
friends

jane doe vs the watch tower in the oakland, ca case was awarded $20 million in punitive damages..

Joe Grundy

JW Facts: Re your post above - as far as I can see from the court documents, the claim for punitive damages was only against WTBTS NY. Thus their 'share' is 27% of $7m plus $21m = $21.89. The financial data they filed with the court suggests that there should be no problem collecting that.

It also suggests that had all defendants been worthy of pursuing for punitive damages the jury had in mind a figure of $80m or so.

61

Brits

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

i hear americans called yanks---and it never even made me blink an eye.

so i'm not sure---and almost used the term brits a minute ago and edited to say british people.

so tell me----is it offensive?

Joe Grundy

PS: Re the often-quoted apocryphal story of Welsh-speaking people who start speaking Welsh to discomfort non-Wesh speakers. I've never experienced it but can't deny it ever happens. If you speak a little Welsh (as I do) you can discomfort those doing this because they can't discern just how much you know.

For 10 years I worked at Police HQ where most of the staff were (first language) Welsh speakers. I wasn't. But out of politeness they switched to English when I was there. When it came to work stuff, like locking up lawyers and other professionals, English was the first language.

61

Brits

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

i hear americans called yanks---and it never even made me blink an eye.

so i'm not sure---and almost used the term brits a minute ago and edited to say british people.

so tell me----is it offensive?

Joe Grundy

Cedars: Well, if you want real local perspective we have to talk of local Pembrokeshire dialect. I'm no expert in this but my sister-in-law (one of 13 children) is related to/went to school with/knows through marriage almost the whole popoulation here.

One of my favourite local word is 'buddle', which means 'busy doing nothing'. As in 'I had a buddle, then I had a rest, then I buddled some more''.

Or 'clever twp' which means someone who appears to be stupid, retarded, but when you walk away after doing a deal you realise he was much smarter than you!

And thinking about it, this may be the best way to deal with dubs who call at your door. Outwardly daft and accepting, but then coming out with the 'killer question' that makes them think!

61

Brits

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

i hear americans called yanks---and it never even made me blink an eye.

so i'm not sure---and almost used the term brits a minute ago and edited to say british people.

so tell me----is it offensive?

Joe Grundy

NewChapter: Sorry, may have taken this off-topic. But maybe it will help to explain why the concepts of UK/GB are so complicated.

Cheers/ Iechyd da!

Joe

61

Brits

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

i hear americans called yanks---and it never even made me blink an eye.

so i'm not sure---and almost used the term brits a minute ago and edited to say british people.

so tell me----is it offensive?

Joe Grundy

Cedars: I agree with the sentiments in your post.

I am not a Welsh speaker, although I can understand some and use it in very limited conversation. My daughter-in-law's first language is Welsh, and on rare occasions she has to stop and think and translate her thoughts into English because the Welsh word or concept does not exactly convey the meaning. The Welsh word 'hiraeth' for example has no direct translation but means 'the homesickness for Wales felt by those who are not there and miss the country and it's culture' - whether that's geographical or historical.

My father was a Welsh speaker, although he rarely used it and it was discouraged throughout his education. His father owned and ran the village shop ('Pandy Stores') during the '30s depression and after in a small mining village near Port Talbot - Pontrhydyfen. The family still have the old shop ledgers, including notes saying 'sorry we can't pay the two shillings off our bill this week but could we please have a quarter of a pound of tea and some butter'. Times were very different then. One of the families in the village was the Jenkins, whose most famous son Dickie became world-famous as Richard Burton.

I went to a grammar school in Pembs in the late 60s/early 70s. Welsh was not an option.

Now, there is an upsurge in the Welsh language, but the biggest increase (I understand) is in new learners who have chosen to settle in Wales from elsewhere. It is 'politically correct' to learn Welsh, and there is a strong and influential movement within Wales (nicknamed the 'Taffia'). BBC and S4c are examples.

I hate to think of the amount of money we waste in being bilingual. Every roadsign, all government documents (my driving licence, HMRC tax papers, council tax demands, etc.) must by law be bilingual. My own view is that there are no residents of Wales who do not understand English.

I hope that my grand-daughters will be brought up to be bi-lingual. That is their heritage and I do my part by reading them bedtime stories in Welsh as far as I can.

Sorry, this is turning out to be a far longer post than I intended but it's a complicated issue. It's not quite true to say that Welshness increases the farther west you go. I live in Pembrokeshire (as far west as you can go). Here, the south of the county is English but there is adefinite line (the 'Landsker' line) north of which you are in Welsh territory. And, of course, the Welsh spoken in North Wales (esp. Ynys Mon) is quite different from the Welsh spoken here.

There is a legal requirement here for Welsh to be taught in schools and there are 'Welsh medium' schools where every subject is taught in Welsh.

But I agree with the thrust of your post. It would be far more useful if the resources were used to teach languages of more use in the modern world. I for one am fed up with government money being wasted in sending me every document in Welsh and English.